“I’d love to see you try before you quit.” Thinking back on that momentous conversation today, Odom tells Parade.com in a new interview, “I looked at him and said, ‘You don’t think I’ve been trying?’ And he said, ‘I think you’re sitting at home and you’re waiting for the phone to ring… The phone didn’t ring today, so what did you do for yourself in the absence of a ringing phone? Did you call anyone? Did you email anybody? Did you write anything?’” That sitdown was arguably the most significant turning point in Odom’s career. “Not one day since have I ever felt like I was sitting on a couch waiting for my phone to ring,” he says. “It just changed my whole life.” A Tony (for Hamilton) and two Oscar nominations (for One Night in Miami) later, Odom preaches the gospel of persistence in more ways than one. There’s his well-received 2018 self-help book/memoir, Failing Up: How to Take Risks, Aim Higher and Never Stop Learning, which expands on those important lessons. There’s also his new partnership with Wells Fargo, helping small businesses find the resources they need to keep their doors open amid the pandemic through their “We Made a Way” campaign. The initiative includes a series of short films directed by diverse, up-and-coming filmmakers that tell the real-life stories of four small businesses and the grit and determination it took for them to keep going. Notes Odom, “You best believe if there was a grant or loan that I could have applied for back then from the Wells Fargo Open for Business Fund, I would have applied for it. That’s what [Robinson] was telling me to do. He was saying, ‘What are all the things that are within your control, have you tried everything?’” Parade.com caught up with Odom in August—just a few days after his 40th birthday, which he commemorated on the set of the upcoming Knives Out 2—to talk about his favorite small businesses, the impressive hobby he picked up during the pandemic and to pitch him on what we think his next project should be.
First off, happy birthday! How does it feel to be on the other side of 40?
It feels OK! I’m working on a film right now and my castmates threw me a very touching, generous surprise party. Everybody came and they said such nice things and those that — I won’t give any away, but those members of my cast that are on the other side of 40…
Is this Knives Out 2?
Yes.
Wow! Now I’m trying to remember everyone who’s going to be in Knives Out 2.
Well, the ones who know from experience what lies ahead age-wise, they gave me some great advice and then it was one to remember. It was very special.
From the very little time you’ve spent in your 40s, what’s your best over-40 wisdom so far?
You know, there’s a few guys in my [Knives Out 2] cast that are over 40 and they’re in shape and they are happy and they are confident [and] by all appearances, they’re in the prime of their life. They’re in the good part, they’re in the good chapters of their lives. So the best advice is just watching the way those guys live and move through the world.
I do think you and Ethan Hawke should do a buddy movie next. But we can talk about that later.
Bet. I love him, bet.
Let’s talk about Wells Fargo’s “We Made a Way” campaign, which is celebrating small businesses’ success and perseverance during the pandemic. The first thing I want to ask you is to shout out your favorite small businesses! Maybe in New York or L.A., or Philly where you’re from…?
In L.A. we go to a little restaurant called Food quite a bit. It’s on Pico [Boulevard] and it’s, yeah, it’s got a name that’s super-easy to remember, and you know a lot of the small businesses—I deal with a lot of small businesses, but it’s a lot of independent contractors, you know what I mean? Like my barber, I have a chess teacher, I have a private piano teacher, my voice lessons; a lot of these people are like, it’s just them. I won’t waste your time and shout out to everybody, but I’m super easy to find on social media if you want to know any of those people, hit me up and I will send a link so you can get in touch with those people.
How long have you been taking chess lessons?
Yo! I started taking chess lessons very close to the top of the pandemic. I tried to learn how to play a couple times in my life and I would just glaze over at some point. It just didn’t make sense. And so this woman, she’s come to my concerts—she’s a very sweet lady and she would buy the most premium ticket package that we had and I would meet her backstage and took pictures with her. And the second or third time we met I was like, ‘What do you do? Tell me about you,’ And she said, ‘I teach chess to children,’ and I said, ‘Please teach me chess the way you teach it to children.’ And so yeah, so I’ve been with her every Sunday since the beginning of the pandemic. Me and my dad, too. My dad has been taking it too, with me.
So he had never played before either?
Not really, but now we’re totally addicted and we play each other all the time. I’m a freak about it now, I love it so much. I love the game.
Since you’ve been working with Wells Fargo, is there a particular small business story you’ve encountered that’s really hit you in the feels?
Well, I love that [the “We Made a Way” campaign] is centered around art—you know, that they didn’t just put out a press release; they made these films and they hired a diverse group of filmmakers and they were telling stories about small businesses that were owned by women and Black people and people of color. So that was deeply moving to me. They couldn’t have known this, but the very first of the four films I watched had a personal connection to me: the Gibson School of Music is in Philadelphia, where I grew up. I knew plenty of people who went to Gibson School of Music to study classical voice, to study piano, to study trombone and flute, you know. And so I know of the formidable work that they have done in the community for decades and you have two Black business owners [talking about] what this money has meant to them and how it has enabled them to keep their doors open. So that is in a lot of ways what the “We Made a Way” short film series is about and what the Open for Business Fund is about at Wells Fargo.
You are—unfortunately—one of the few actors who can claim to have been directed twice in a feature film by a Black woman [in Harriet and One Night in Miami]. Can you give us a sense of what having that, as a Black actor, gives you when it comes to how you deliver your performance?
It’s a different perspective. You’re giving the truth of another’s lived experience and there’s great value in that. You’re sharing information. But the power of the diversity of the types of stories that we tell, that we, you know what we have the power to do in telling stories is, we have the power to make people feel, to help people feel less alone. And that is, you know, I think that’s a virtuous thing. That’s a whole new calling. That’s something that’s an extra-special thing that we get to do as storytellers.
Hamilton debuted on Disney+ last summer. I know it’s hard to interact face to face with fans or anyone these days because of the pandemic, but I’m wondering if you’ve noticed a different Hamilton fan base out there since the movie came out.
Oh, yeah. I mean Tommy Kail, our director, he prepared me a little bit for it. He was like, “Leslie, you have to understand, more people are going to see you in the opening of Hamilton on Disney+ than saw all 500 shows." I did 500 performances as Aaron Burr.
Not enough! I didn’t get to see it!
[Laughs] So yes, that’s the power of television. That is the power of the streaming platforms and when you have a piece of work, a piece of art that has something to say the way I believe Hamilton has many things to say, then that is gasoline to the fire. It allows the message to spread and that’s a wonderful thing. Next, Leslie Odom Jr. Reveals What Inspired Him to Make a Christmas Album + His All-Time Favorite Songs
